This is the third in a five-part series of Shakespeare Lipograms. For my third lipogram, I have chosen to summarize a Romance, Cymbeline, using “I” as the only vowel.

Enjoy!

British King did wish his kid, Inspiring Girl, did hitch with Swindling Witch’s kid, Insipid Nitwit. Inspiring Girl did this which British King didn’t wish: hitch with Whiz Kid. British King did dismiss Whiz Kid. Inspiring Girl did miss him. Swindling Witch bids Skill Wiz fix his spirit mix, giving Right Fit this. Skill Wiz did switch this spirit mix.

In Rimini, Whiz Kid sits with Nihilistic Twit. This visit is grim. Whiz Kid insists his virgin Inspiring Girl isn’t with sin. Nihilistic Twit will risk his rich bills with Whiz Kid’s ring if this virgin is with sin. Whiz Kid will print, giving Nihilistic Twit his visit.

Nihilistic Twit visits Inspiring Girl. Thinking Inspiring Girl isn’t with sin, Nihilistic Twit tricks this virgin, which will win his risk. Hiding in his bin, his trick is glimpsing this virgin in birth digs in midnight’s dim. Glimpsing firm skin, thick lips, thin midriff, fit thighs, Nihilistic Twit will fib right.

Nihilistic Twit fibs with Whiz Kid, which wins his ring. Whiz Kid is livid. Whiz Kid prints this in ink: Right Fit, Kill This Girl! Right Fit fits Inspiring Girl in stripling things, giving “him” Swindling Witch’s spirit mix. This Stripling Mimic will find Whiz Kid.

In his wild crib, Childish Misfit is living with British King’s Missing Kids. Missing Kids think Childish Misfit is kin. Stripling Mimic finds Childish Misfit’s wild crib. Stripling Mimic finds Missing Kids liking him, inviting him in. This link didn’t think it is missing siblings knit. It is!

Insipid Nitwit primps in Whiz Kid’s digs. First Missing Kid kills him. Stripling Mimic drinks Right Fit’s spirit mix. Missing Kids think Stripling Mimic is stiff. Missing Kids sing. Rising, Stripling Mimic finds Insipid Nitwit’s stiff, thinks it’s Whiz Kid, will miss him. Whiz Kid fights with British wing, which wins! In this fighting, British pinch Whiz Kid with Nihilistic Twit. Whiz Kid’s spirit kin visit him in his brig.

Whiz Kid with Nihilistic Twit visits British King with Stripling Mimic. Right Fit’s tiding is Swindling Witch is stiff. Stripling Mimic finds British King liking him, giving him his first wish. His first wish is Nihilistic Twit will spill it with this ring. Nihilistic Twit spills it: this ring is Whiz Kid’s. His fib did win it, which is ill. Striking Nihilistic Twit, Whiz Kid is livid. Lifting him, Stripling Mimic is hit. It is Inspiring Girl!

First Missing Kid spills it: It is him which did kill Insipid Nitwit. British King will kill him. Childish Misfit spills it: British King is Missing Kids’ kin; Inspiring Girl is Missing Kids’ sibling. British King did dismiss Childish Misfit’s sins. Whiz Kid did dismiss Nihilistic Twit’s sins. British King, with his kids, is in his bliss!

Well, I am pleased to report that the Cymbeline project turned out very well.

For their video project, the 8th grade class I was working with decided to create a modern-day talk show (instead of a reality show) with characters from Shakespeare’s Cymbeline as guests. The show includes scenes from the original play, an alternate ending, and a commercial for a Cymbeline video game… all written, performed, and produced by the students!

They presented their video at an in-school film festival, and represented their school at a citywide film festival hosted by my organization. And now, through the magic of the Internet, I share the video with you:

If you want to share this video with others, you can link directly to this post or embed the video from its TeacherTube page (where you can also watch the video if you have trouble loading it in here). We will also be featuring the video on the school’s home page.

UPDATE: The kids put the video on YouTube. It’s a much higher quality than what I was able to post to TeacherTube, so if you want to embed the video on your site, you should use that one.

So I started Cymbeline with the 8th grade class today. I posted a request for suggestions yesterday, but the answer was staring right back at me from the post itself. Show the students the Taming of the Shrew video that the 11th grade students made.

We did a basic K/W/L activity on Shakespeare and the teacher was so impressed by her students’ prior knowledge that she decided to let the students choose the play. But they didn’t really know very many plays, though one student remarked that Romeo and Juliet was “so played out.”

I showed them the Shrew video, and invited them to discuss at their tables how they would do the project differently. They came up with some great ideas, and earnest critiques of the project. They also decided that they wanted to do The Taming of the Shrew. Yeah, because Romeo and Juliet is “so played out.”

We discussed some other plays, including As You Like It and Othello, which seemed to be strong contenders. One of the students asked about Cymbeline, and the teacher gave a brief description of the opening situation with Imogen, Cymbeline, Posthumous, Cloten, and the wicked Queen. I talked about how Iachimo bet Postumous that he could seduce his wife. The teacher described with some detail how Iachimo was able to “win” his bet, as it slowly dawned on me why we don’t teach this play. Still, it’s Shakespeare, and we’re totally going to get away with it. I described the beheading of Cloten, and now all the students want to do Cymbeline.

So we ended up where we started on the play, but at least the students now have ownership of the choice. I’m looking forward to seeing what they do with it.

UPDATE: The project has been completed.

I’m starting to work with a new 8th grade class tomorrow on Shakespeare’s Cymbeline. Ultimately, we’re planning to do a video mockumentary - kind of like a fake reality show set in the world of the play. I did a similar project with 11th grade students on The Taming of the Shrew and it was very successful.

Cymbeline is a play I think is underrated, and I’m thrilled the teacher chose this play. But I’ve never taught it before!

Any suggestions?

From Cymbeline:

Fear no more the heat o’ the sun,
Nor the furious winter’s rages;
Thou thy worldly task hast done,
Home art gone, and ta’en thy wages;
Golden lads and girls all must,
As chimney-sweepers, come to dust.

Shift around the letters, and it becomes:

There’s no need to shun death, that has neither hot days nor dark stormy nights.

Life is so much worse that you may as well go now and get compensated for earned tumult.

Age sneers. Gallows rule!

So, this article has been getting a lot of attention on the Internet, and I feel I need to respond:

In a radio programme to be aired today, Scots historian Fiona Watson and literary expert Molly Rourke claim the story of Macbeth was penned by a Scottish monk on St Serf’s Island in the middle of Loch Leven 400 years before William Shakespeare even drew breath.

Pause for laughter.

In Macbeth the Highland King to be broadcast on BBC Radio Scotland, Watson says Macbeth and his wife, Gruoch, were in fact “respected, God-fearing folk”.

According to Watson, the “almost entirely fantastical view” of Macbeth and Lady Macbeth drawn by William Shakespeare is lifted, almost word for word in places, from a collection of folklore recorded by St Serf’s monk, Andrew de Wyntoun.

Wow, there’s so much wrong with that, it’s hard to know where to start.

First of all, the “almost word for word” case is never made, at least not in the article. The few points of similarity between the two texts that are mentioned are dealt with below. But there really was a historical Macbeth, and so any two accounts of his life are bound to have some similarities, whether they be historical or legendary.

Did Shakespeare have an “almost entirely fantastical view” of Macbeth? Yes. He was a playwright, not a historian. He often made changes to history to suit his dramatic purposes. That’s what he’s supposed to do. He was also writing for King James, who was a direct descendant of both Malcolm and Banquo. So of course he’s going to make them good and noble and make Macbeth a savage butcher. He knew which side of his bread was buttered.

Also, the Andrew Wyntoun text is from 1420. How is that “400 years before William Shakespeare even drew breath” which he first did in 1564? And if the text really were from 1164, it would not be at all readable to a twenty-first century English-only speaker, as this text somewhat is. Check it out.

But the most striking part of the article is that it completely ignores the fact that we already know what Shakespeare’s source was for the events described. It was Raphael Holinshed’s The Chronicles of England, Scotland, and Ireland. In fact, not only was Holinshed’s Chronicles a major source for Macbeth, but also for King Lear, Cymbeline, and all ten of Shakespeare’s history plays. If you don’t know that, it’s easy to be taken in by the following observation in the article:

Referring to Shakespeare’s prophecy that Macbeth shall be safe until Birnham Wood comes to Dunsinane and that no-one “of woman born” shall harm Macbeth, Rourke explained in Wyntoun’s work: “The person [Macbeth's mother] met later came and saw her, gave her a ring, and prophesied about what was going to happen in the future. One of the things he said was that this child they’d had would never be killed by man born of woman. Wyntoun also recorded that Macbeth believed he’d never be conquered until the wood of Birnham came to Dunsinane.”

Thanks to the wonderful Furness Collection at the University of Pennsylvania, we can see the source for this on Page 174 of the Historie of Scotland section of Holinshed’s Chronicles:

And suerlie herevpon had he put Makduffe to death, but that a certaine witch, whom hee had in great trust, had told that he should neuer be slaine with man borne of anie woman, nor vanquished till the wood of Bernane came to the castell of Dunsinane.

The witch told Macbeth, like the apparitions do in the play, not a person telling Macbeth’s mother and giving her a ring.

The article continues on with reckless abandon:

The historians claim another element of Wyntoun found in Shakespeare is the three witches that open the play. Wyntoun wrote: “Ane nicht, he thoucht while he was sa settled [that] he saw three women, and they women then thoucht he three Wierd Sisters most like to be.

“The first he heard say, ganging by, ‘lo, yonder the Thane of Cromarty’.

“T’other woman said again ‘of Moray, yonder I see the Thane’.

“The third said ‘yonder I see the king’.”

Rourke and Watson say the resemblance to the witches’ prophesy in Shakespeare’s Macbeth - in which the first hails him as “Thane of Glames”, the second as “Thane of Cawdor” and the third proclaims he shall “be King hereafter” - is too great to be co-incidental.

We simply need to turn back to page 170 of Holinshed to see where Shakespeare found this, and thanks to the extraordinary Folger collection we can see a much easier-to-read copy of Holinshed’s version of the story:

Shortlie after happened a strange and vncouth woonder, which afterward was the cause of much trouble in the realme of Scotland as ye shall after heare. It fortuned as Makbeth and Banquho iournied towards Fores, where the king then laie, they went sporting by the waie togither without other company saue onelie themselues, passing thorough the woods and fields, when suddenlie in the middest of a laund, there met them three women in strange and wild apparell, resembling creatures of elder world, whome when they attentiuelie beheld, woondering much at the sight, the first of them spake and said: All haile Makbeth, thane of Glammis (for he had latelie entered into that dignitie and office by the death of his father Sinell). The second of them said: Haile Makbeth thane of Cawder. But the third said: All haile Makbeth that heereafter shalt be king of Scotland.

I’ll allow you to examine that scene in Shakespeare and decide for yourself which of these two accounts was most likely Shakespeare’s source.

It’s entirely possible that Wyntoun’s work was a source for Holinshed (or Harrison, Leland, etc.), or a source of a source, or at some point they had a common source. But the idea suggested by this article, that Shakespeare somehow “lifted” Macbeth from Wyntoun, is absurd.

UPDATE: A follow-up post.

At the risk of appearing like I’m trying to out-geek the Shakespeare Geek, here’s another list.

You’ve seen my top 25 favorite plays and my top 25 favorite scenes (then expanded to 50). Here are my top 50 favorite characters (or groups of characters) from Shakespeare’s plays at the present moment. Enjoy! And feel free to add to the conversation, especially if I’ve left some of your favorites out!

50. The Nurse (Romeo and Juliet) - The play may be a tragedy, but the Nurse is one of the great comic roles in Shakespeare.

49. The Duke of York (Richard the Second) - The remaining son of Edward III is so loyal to the King, he’ll turn in his own son as a traitor.

48. Sir Toby Belch (Twelfth Night) - Think Falstaff without the good manners. Half the time he’s plotting; the other half he’s drunk.

47. The Prince of Morocco & The Prince of Arragon (The Merchant of Venice) - It’s hard to tell which of these two suitors to Portia is more unsuitable, or more hilarious.

46. Dogberry (Much Ado About Nothing) - The muddled constable of the watch who bumbles his way into uncovering the evil plot!

45. Helena (All’s Well That Ends Well) - I’ll never understand what a quality woman like Helena sees in a loser like Bertram. Sigh.

44. Richard the Second (Richard the Second) - Too much philosopher, not enough king. But divine right is divine right. Isn’t it?

43. Philip the Bastard (King John) - When you’re already a bastard, who cares what people think of you? Certainly not Philip.

42. Polonius (Hamlet) - He may be a rash, intruding, doddering old fool, but his madness has a method to it. I think.

41. Beatrice and Benedick (Much Ado About Nothing) - You can’t have one without the other. Sharp banter hiding a deep affection - very cool.

40. Portia (The Merchant of Venice) - Unlike some love interests, Portia is actually worth the winning, and not just for her money.

39. Puck (A Midsummer Night’s Dream) - The mischievous sprite who doesn’t mind helping mortals at times, as long as it’s funny.

38. Mercutio (Romeo and Juliet) - The madcap kinsman to the Prince is a grave man when caught between the two houses.

37. Lucio (Measure for Measure) - This guy is a riot from beginning to end, but slandering the Duke to his disguised face rules.

36. Marc Antony (Multiple plays) - His funeral oration is a masterpiece, but his most powerful line? “I am dying, Egypt, dying.”

35. Viola (Twelfth Night) - Her disguise-as-a-boy plan plunges her in over her head, but she handles it all with grace.

34. Brutus (Julius Caesar) - This was the noblest Roman of them all, deeply conflicted and ultimately his own undoing.

33. Cloten (Cymbeline) - Proud, arrogant, foolish, entitled, and a bully, Cloten is nothing but a suit and a title. Fun!

32. The Earl of Kent (King Lear) - Deeply loyal to the King who has banished him, Kent has something to teach us all.

31. Malvolio (Twelfth Night) - He didn’t really deserve what he got in the play, but he is a Puritan, after all.

30. Jacques (As You Like It) - He’s probably bipolar, but he’s a deep thinker and a keen observer of the human condition.

29. Caliban (The Tempest) - Caliban’s antics are a lot of fun, but I’m more interested in his backstory and its meaning.

28. The Weird Sisters (Macbeth) - Do you think the three witches predict the future? Or do they cause it?

27. Tranio (The Taming of the Shrew) - A servant, who we mostly see playing gentleman. At the end, he’s back to waiting tables.

26. Lewis the Dauphin (Henry the Fifth) - We’re shown Henry’s suitability to be the next French king by seeing a weak Dauphin.

25. Isabella (Measure for Measure) - After all she’s been through, the Duke gives her one final impossible test. She passes.

24. Petruchio & Katherine (The Taming of the Shrew) - When an irresistible force meets an immovable object, somethin’s gotta give…

23. Emilia (Othello) - She’d make her husband a cuckold to make him a king, but won’t cover for his wickedness.

22. Iachimo (Cymbeline) - This “Little Iago” is clever and dishonest, and starts up way more trouble than he means to.

21. Enobarbus (Antony and Cleopatra) - A loyal soldier who can’t support Antony’s self-destructive course, and dies of shame.

20. Goneril & Regan (King Lear) - The wicked ones turn on their father, their husbands, their sister, and finally, each other.

19. Jack Cade (Henry the Sixth, Part Two) - This rough-hewn pretender to the throne would abolish money and kill all the lawyers.

18. Helena (A Midsummer Night’s Dream) - My heart just goes out to Helena, who is such a sweet person and gets rotten treatment.

17. Prospero (The Tempest) - The Duke of Milan, and wise old master of knowledge, books, and the elements of nature.

16. Hamlet (Hamlet) - The melancholy Dane helps us understand that murky place between thought and action.

15. Queen Margaret (Multiple plays) - With an amazing character arc that spans four plays, Margaret puts the “It” back in bitch.

14. Rosalind (As You Like It) - Let’s face it - Rosalind carries the whole plot on force of personality. We like her, so it works.

13. Macbeth (Macbeth) - From noble warrior to homicidal maniac, Macbeth experiences an incredible transformation.

12. Bottom (A Midsummer Night’s Dream) - The megalomaniac actor! We can all recognize him, but do we recognize ourselves in him?

11. Cleopatra (Antony and Cleopatra) - She’s a strong, empowered woman who’s not above using sex as a political tactic.

10. Edmund (King Lear) - A charming villain - all honor on the outside, and evil on the inside. What a bastard!

9. Othello (Othello) - A complex and passionate character, who loved (and trusted) not wisely, but too well.

8. Sir John Falstaff (Multiple plays) - A drunk, a theif, a liar, a glutton, and a pure hedonist. And those are his good points.

7. Duke of Gloucester/ Richard the Third (Multiple plays) - Since he cannot prove a lover, he is determined to prove a villain!

6. Shylock (The Merchant of Venice) - The Jewish moneylender may be the villain, but Shakespeare shows us his human side.

5. King Lear (King Lear) - Is dying the worst thing that can happen? What about having it all and watching it fade?

4. Prince Hal/ Henry the Fifth (Multiple plays) - Shakespeare traces England’s great hero from his wayward youth to his victory in France.

3. Lady Macbeth (Macbeth) - An equal partner in evil to Macbeth, and a force to be reckoned with. But then she breaks.

2. The Fool (King Lear) - The Fool balances that fine line between jesting clown, and sharp commentator on events.

1. Iago (Othello) - The hands-down, pure evil incarnate, puppet master general. But why does he do it?

The Shakespeare Geek has posted his top five favorite Shakespeare plays, based on another blogger’s post listing his top five favorite Shakespeare plays.

Man, how can you do that? I tried it myself, but the list got a little out of hand. My top five list turns out to have twenty-five plays in it. Bear with me. Here they are, in the ascending order of my preference today. If I made the same list tomorrow, it might be different.

25. The Tempest - Critics deny this is Shakespeare’s farewell to the theatre, but read it and decide for yourself. Prospero, Ariel, Caliban, and Miranda are unique in Shakespeare, strange for so late a play.

24. Much Ado About Nothing - There is a lot in this play to recommend, but Beatrice and Benedick are the most fun. I’m also a fan of Dogberry the Constable and, in his own way, Don John.

23. The Winter’s Tale - I like this play… not as much as other people may like it, but I like it well enough. There are some great speeches in the play, and more than a few moments that kill on stage.

22. Henry the Sixth, Part Three - The paper crown scene alone should bring this play some recognition. I also enjoy the early character development of Richard Gloucester, the future King Richard III.

21. Henry the Fourth, Part Two - Vibrant tavern scenes, darkly comic scenes, frenetic battle scenes, and one intense standoff between King Henry and his son Hal. Don’t miss the last five minutes.

20. The Comedy of Errors - This play can be a lot of fun if you accept it on its own terms. The scene where Antipholus of Ephesus is locked out of his house is reason enough to make the list.

19. Cymbeline - This is a hidden treasure, filled with great scenes and powerful moments. It has a beautiful fairy-tale quality, strong characters, passionate poetry, and a satisfying ending. More here.

18. The Taming of the Shrew - The first scene between Kate and Petruchio is an all-time classic, and the piece as a whole is a wonderful bit of inspired silliness. The taming can be a bit jarring, though.

17. Romeo and Juliet - I think it would be hard for anyone to make a Top Five and Twenty list of favorite Shakespeare plays and not include Romeo & Juliet. The poetic language is beautiful.

16. Twelfth Night - There’s a lot going on in this play, and it all works on stage. Don’t let the slapstick elements fool you into thinking this is an unsophisticated play. It isn’t.

15. The Merchant of Venice - This is another play with a rich complexity that seems to burst out of its fairy-tale frame, which is what allows the darker elements of the play finally to surface.

14. Henry the Fourth, Part One - Who could resist the irrepressible Falstaff, and his relationship with the young Prince Hal? This play has my favorite tavern scene, and lets not forget Hotspur either.

13. King John - Shakespeare wrote this play just after the death of his eleven-year-old son, and the influence of that event on this play is breathtaking. Also, the Bastard is a character well worth knowing.

12. Richard the Second - For God’s sake, let us sit upon the ground and talk about the richly complex symbolism and beautiful flowing poetry in this play. Go and fetch me a looking glass.

11. Antony and Cleopatra - It’s a love story. It’s a war epic. It’s a geopolitical thriller. It’s the greatest story in history told by history’s greatest storyteller. This is not your high school Romeo and Juliet.

10. Henry the Fifth - This is a tight, passionate, stirring play. It’s also a Rorschach test for how you feel about war. Each scene is a mini-masterpiece, and the use of language is extraordinary.

9. Julius Caesar - This powerful tale of politics, rhetoric, and betrayal in Ancient Rome may be a schoolhouse classic, but it’s a better read as an adult. I find myself coming back again and again.

8. Measure for Measure - Darker and more overtly sexual than most of Shakespeare’s other comedies, this play explores both the depths of depravity and the better angels of human nature.

7. As You Like It - This Shakespearean fairy tale is filled with laughs, love, and music. Shakespeare knew what audiences liked, and he gave it to them in this aptly named comedy.

6. A Midsummer Night’s Dream - One can only imagine what the effect must have been of having fairies and nobles and workmen wrapped up in the same story on stage. One for the ages.

5. Othello - This is a true masterpiece: in characterization, plot structure, emotion, pacing, poetic language, potency, and thematic cohesion. This is how to write a play, my friends.

4. Macbeth - I’ve always found this play extremely riveting from beginning to end. The witches prophesy Macbeth will be King, setting a chain of events irrevocably in motion. Spellbinding.

3. Hamlet - Never before or since has there been such an intimately detailed character study. Was he mad? My father once said, “if you took that close a look at any of our minds, we’d all seem mad.”

2. King Lear - I make new discoveries every time I read this play, and not just discoveries about the play. This may be the greatest thing ever written in the English language. I may never fully grasp it.

1. Richard the Third - My personal favorite, and a guilty pleasure at that. Somehow, Shakespeare makes us root for the bad guy. Is there a secret evil genius within us that he speaks to? I’ll never admit to it.

So those are my top five favorite Shakespeare plays. Feel free to post your top five favorite Shakespeare plays in the comments, however many there may happen to be.

Now, the gloves come off.

I’ve blogged about gay muppets, the Iraq War, and the sexual proclivities of a certain 13th century Mongolian conqueror who shall remain nameless, but now I’m ready to tackle some real controversy. Read on, but please use discretion.

I have a group that meets once a month to do readings of Shakespeare’s plays. This past weekend, we read The Winter’s Tale.

Now, I’ve never been a big fan of The Winter’s Tale. But a lot of serious Shakespeare fans list it among their favorites, which leads me to believe there’s more there than I’m seeing, and perhaps I will like it more when I’ve given it more attention. I don’t know. Events seem to happen haphazardly and without cause. The characters give me no reason to want to wish them well. And I feel kind of cheated that the reunion of the king with his daughter is presented second-hand in an exposition scene, rather than the brilliant dialogue Shakespeare could have chosen to write.

The play is usually classified as a “Romance” which is a lesser-known Shakespearean genre (compared to Comedy, Tragedy, and History) that Shakespeare experimented with late in his career. It is believed that he started with Pericles and Cymbeline (not usually considered among his best works), gradually improved the form in The Winter’s Tale, and finally created The Tempest, which is usually considered to be the finest of his works in the genre. Romances (as they are found in Shakespeare) are generally characterized by fairy tale elements such as long-lost relatives; gods, spirits, and other supernatural elements; and exploring a relationship with nature. Intrestingly enough, the Comedy As You Like It, written much earlier, contains all of these elements, but is never classified as a Romance (though it is sometimes classified, by itself, as a Pastoral). But the Romances Cymbeline and The Winter’s Tale in particular are very closely connected by their treatment of these elements.

Which leads me to my point. I think that Cymbeline is a much better play than The Winter’s Tale, but doesn’t get nearly the respect. Cymbeline has a beautiful fairy-tale quality, better poetic language, more human characters, a logical (albeit far-fetched) structured motivated plot, a clear moral code of values, and a satisfying ending. Imogen is one of the great female roles in Shakespeare, and — I know this is heresy — Hermione is not.

Oh, yeah. I went there.

Most memorable moment of Cymbeline? The funeral dirge:

Fear no more the heat o’ the sun,
Nor the furious winter’s rages;
Thou thy worldly task hast done,
Home art gone, and ta’en thy wages;
Golden lads and girls all must,
As chimney-sweepers, come to dust.

Most memorable moment of The Winter’s Tale? A stage direction:

Exit, pursued by a bear.

Look, I don’t hate The Winter’s Tale. I just don’t understand why it holds a special place in the hearts of so many, when Cymbeline doesn’t. The plays are closely connected, so I think it’s fair to compare the two. I wouldn’t try to compare, say, Othello with A Midsummer Night’s Dream, but I can say this:

Cymbeline is a much better play than The Winter’s Tale.

Does anybody have a problem with that?

All visitors to the blog who are familiar with both plays are welcome to debate the issue in the comments section of this post. If a lively discussion ensues (and how could it possibly not?), I will jump in and defend my position.